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Okami 06-19-2015 07:34 AM

Re: Building the Lingerie Chest
 
Derek, it's coming along nicely:clapping1:
Nice recovery with the panel! Thank goodness for hide glue!
I've had one or two thin panel glue-ups fail in the same manor, over clamping and starving the join. Lessons learnt.
I also cut cheeks first, with handsaw or machine (bandsaw,tablesaw).
The curved drawers are gunna be interesting!

derekcohen 06-21-2015 04:32 PM

Re: Building the Lingerie Chest
 
First of all I am very pleased - and relieved - to mention that the panels are back in one piece and together.

Then just a couple of comments about the failure and the hide glue ...

The reason for the failure was that the join was glue-starved. As simple as that. Well, almost.

The reason for the join being glue starved was not because I used too little glue, and not because of the type of glue, but because I over-tightened the clamps.

The over-tightening was due to the spring joint being too wide. What is a good- and what is a bad spring joint? Well, a good joint is one that may be closed with hand pressure, and a bad one is one that requires help to do so. In the case of the one panel, I got it right. In the case of the failed panel, clearly I did not. I could see light through the centre when I inspected the join, and immediately I knew this was the cause. Pulling the join together with a clamp just disguised the issue since all the tension was at the centre (where the join failed), and the force squeezed the glue out ...... no glue + tension = open up.

A second question is "why spring at all". Some like to do this and others argue that it is not necessary, that glue is tougher than wood. In my book, it is important to ensure that the ends of a panel contact each other. If there is any curvature to mating sides (and often this is difficult to see - which is the point), extra clamping at the ends creates two tension sections .. where as the spring joint only creates one tension point. But the spring must be almost imperceptible, as in the photo I posted.

A third issue is the choice of Titebond hide glue. Well hide glue rocks ... but Titebond? I have had a number of emails warning me about its use, that it is unreliable, etc. My experience with it is not long - about two years. In that time I cannot recall a failure. It needs to be pointed out that the mortice-and-tenon joints were solid. There was no failure there.

I must admit that I have avoided going to the trouble of preparing the stuff myself since I am lazy. The issue is that I get into the workshop on weekends only, and making up a fresh batch of glue each time, keeping it warm, etc .. well, it does not thrill me. Anyone have a way of circumventing this?

So back to the repair.

It the face needed a minimal amount of scraping to level the joint ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...psknextyuc.jpg

... before I called it good and re-glued and pinned the panel inside the frame.

The repaired panel is on the left ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...psdqocfkjw.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...psk2owa6vt.jpg

Reinforcing strips were added to the rear - I had planned to do this anyway to beef up the thin panels. They will not be seen (on the inside) but will offer a little more reliability ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...ps1uyvh9qf.jpg

Some may be interested in the supports I built to aid accuracy in dimension and to keep everything square. The first was the base, which also will enable the chest to be moved around later ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...ps9sljpygw.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...pskqyiuycn.jpg

The other clamps across the top ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...ps4l5c4zri.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...pst5hmkigg.jpg

So now we are back to clamping all on the jigs, with an added section of MDF clamped to the rear. The plumb bob ensures that vertical and centre is created, and may be returned to at any time ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...pskebhfjhp.jpg

Once this is done, the inside perimeter can be traced onto the MDF. The MBF is moved to the bench, where the drawer dividers are drawn in. This is to act as a template.

A line is drawn down the centre of the cabinet template, and the dimensions first marked on this centre line ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...psqa6xegbj.jpg

They are then transferred to each side ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...psvca5b5xf.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...pswxagzzoo.jpg

Here is the template back supporting the chest sides ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...psd90mgb6b.jpg

I moved it to the other side and it was reassuring that there was about 1mm difference in the marked outline.

Now the intention was not to use these marks as the template, but rather to create a template from them. To do this the MDF outline was sawn down the centre, and then the curved side band sawn out, with a little cleaning up done with a small block plane.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...psgufh0dhd.jpg

Measurements are marked both sides ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...psrivqyv3o.jpg

... and then transferred to each side of one board (only) ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...pswvv9yybe.jpg

The panels are clamped together and the markings transferred from one board to the other ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...pshsyzogdx.jpg

Once one side is match, the boards are rotated to complete the other matching edges ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...pse1n9klw0.jpg

Now we can move on to marking out angled sliding dovetails and build the draw dividers.

Regards from Perth

Derek

jessecloud 06-21-2015 06:43 PM

Re: Building the Lingerie Chest
 
I'm a fan of hide glue, too.

I think, though, that the warnings on titebond may be exaggerated. I have used titebond for veneering and lamination for a decade now, and none of the pieces I made show any signs of failure, despite hard use.

BTW, I saw Paul Schurch cutting veneer with a Festool track saw on a video. I was skeptical, but when I tried it, it worked brilliantly. Per his recommendation, I used the Festool blade for cutting aluminum. The process produced clean pieces that were ready for joining. I was amazed. And I saved a lot of time compared to traditional methods.

Okami 06-22-2015 02:24 AM

Re: Building the Lingerie Chest
 
They say a true craftsman doesn't buckle under the pressure of his mistakes, but corrects them, and nobody ever knows. Nice job on the panel:clapping1:
I can't remember all the details, but I used tightbond hide glue once and it failed. I haven't used their hide glue since. I do use their tightbond 3 and like it.
Derek, how have to attached the reinforcing slats to the inside of the panel?
I much prefer using full scale drawings and templates when ever possible on my projects. That's the way I was taught. I've tried using the modern ways with sketch-up for drawing out, but always go back to drawing on a sheet of something:D

derekcohen 07-12-2015 05:01 PM

Before the drawer blades ...
 
The cabinet carcase is now complete and together as a dry fit.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...psinygb0dz.jpg

You cannot see the curve on the front elevation in this photo, but it is clearer in the documentation ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...ps6xeeepmy.jpg

It had been my intention to post the carcase with completed draw blades this would have been the next stage in any cabinet with straight sides. However it became increasingly apparent that, as a result of the many curves, this build is a tad more complicated, and I am have been left wondering whether I would ever get to be in a position to build the drawer blades as something else kept cropping up! It was a case of Id better to this before I get to that as it will not be possible later. And on and on ..

It is possible and indeed I like to hear the opinion of others here that the sliding dovetails for the drawer blades could be marked and formed from inside the completed carcase. I am now seriously considering this method. Indeed, I cannot see an alternative. The carcase could be dis-assembled and assembled repeatedly for work to be checked, carried out, and then checked again. However the latter will cause wear on the joinery, with resulting loss of tautness and accuracy.

Let's hear your thoughts on constructing the drawer blades. The front and rear are planned to be sliding dovetails (as has so much of this construction so far).

Here is the build in detail: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...werBlades.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

derekcohen 07-20-2015 04:56 PM

Moving forward
 
It seems like a lot of planning for little actual progress. However the basic carcase was glued up after stopped rebated were planed at the rear, and the strategy for making the sliding dovetails in the curved sides from inside the front leg/frame was finalised.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...ngForward.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

derekcohen 07-27-2015 05:03 PM

Sliding Dovetails for the Lingerie Chest
 
Below is the work completed over the past weekend. The Lingerie Chest is progressing steadily.

The strategy for the sliding dovetails into curved sides looks to be successful. The strategy was necessitated by the design, which required the housings to be made from inside the front legs, rather than from outside, as is usual.

There is also a novel method for creating the sliding dovetails using an easy-to-make dovetail plane (everyone will make one!).

The article is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...etails-LC.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

patriot 07-27-2015 08:16 PM

Re: Building the Lingerie Chest
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jessecloud (Post 91265)
I'm a fan of hide glue, too.

BTW, I saw Paul Schurch cutting veneer with a Festool track saw on a video. I was skeptical, but when I tried it, it worked brilliantly. Per his recommendation, I used the Festool blade for cutting aluminum. The process produced clean pieces that were ready for joining. I was amazed. And I saved a lot of time compared to traditional methods.

Are you pulling our leg?? I just found the video. I am not sure what to say about this??

Here is the link to the video.

Amazing!

jessecloud 07-27-2015 10:28 PM

Re: Building the Lingerie Chest
 
No joke. It works. After a few successful runs, I still felt nervous about pulling the saw backward, so I tried using it in the normal manner. It worked just as well for me. I was using a TS55 with the long rail and I cut a stack of half a dozen or so pieces at a time.

Works well for rips and crosscuts.

With two MFT 1080s and a plywood bridge to stretch a couple more feet, I can cut the whole length of a 110 inch sheet of veneer.

Stop by next time you are on your way to Santa Fe and try it.

patriot 07-27-2015 10:34 PM

Re: Building the Lingerie Chest
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jessecloud (Post 91627)
No joke. It works. After a few successful runs, I still felt nervous about pulling the saw backward, so I tried using it in the normal manner. It worked just as well for me. I was using a TS55 with the long rail and I cut a stack of half a dozen or so pieces at a time.

Works well for rips and crosscuts.

With two MFT 1080s and a plywood bridge to stretch a couple more feet, I can cut the whole length of a 110 inch sheet of veneer.

Stop by next time you are on your way to Santa Fe and try it.

OK, but I'll be wearing my waders.BIG Big Grin

I watched the video but he never showed the veneer edges, but I'll take your word for it. Wish I could make it up there.

We should start a new thread on this because I don't feel right high-jacking Derek's thread.


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