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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2008, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: Mortise Pal

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Originally Posted by Poto View Post
I was curious about this, too, Ned. I once tried chucking a straight cutter bit in my drill press to do some light shaping on a small piece. It didn't work at all. So the rotation speed is clearly important...
And the drill press is another tool that wasn't designed for side loads.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2008, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Mortise Pal

Too true. I was very careful, but I still always had that little voice on my shoulder saying, "This isn't what the tool was designed for. It could break. You could get hurt. Don't do this. Buy a new tool instead!"

I always like that last part...
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2008, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: Mortise Pal

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Originally Posted by Poto View Post
I was curious about this, too, Ned. I once tried chucking a straight cutter bit in my drill press to do some light shaping on a small piece. It didn't work at all. So the rotation speed is clearly important...
Drills and drillpresses are for drilling, routers and router bits are milling tools. Seems obvious enough but there are always folks who market cheap solutions. I have Jessem stuff that I like a lot (router fence with miter slide) but their mortising tool is just stoopid (si.). The only way a drill bit can mill is with the drill point, and it needs to be supported at the point of cut. The Jessem does this but there is NO provision to cut a straight wall with the margins of a drill. For that you need what is called radial clearance. Drills do not have radial clearance. They have a true circular land, or margin. It cuts about as well as a chisel that is laid flat on a surface, i.e., not at all. The quality of the mortice walls with the Jessem will be affected dramatically by the depth of cut taken with each pass. All the while, the drill is being rubbed on the margins by the bushing that is guiding it. This is a poor substitute for the most rudimentary morticing jig anyone could make to be used with a router. JMHO.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2008, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: Mortise Pal

That's really interesting, Greg. I'd like to hear more about radial clearance and circular land.

But getting back to my own situation - I chucked a router bit in the drill press, and it still didn't work. So there's more to it than the cutter. Right?
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2008, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Mortise Pal

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Originally Posted by Poto View Post
That's really interesting, Greg. I'd like to hear more about radial clearance and circular land.

But getting back to my own situation - I chucked a router bit in the drill press, and it still didn't work. So there's more to it than the cutter. Right?
Right! Drill presses have bearings that are primarily designed for end thrust, or axial load. Milling spindles, as represented by routers, have bearings that can accomodate end and side loads, or axial and radial. The axial load capability is there so that there is no end play which would negatively impact the finish as the cutting tool moves across a surface. The radial load keeps the cutting tool rigid. A drill press is not very good at that and it is exacerbated by the fact that the bearings are located up inside the spindle and farther away from the point of action, causing the tool to bend away from the cut. Couple that with much lower RPM, which also increases force due to physics, and you have a poor performing combination. You can use a DP with a sanding drum and get reasonable results because the load is constant once you get pushed up against the drum but you are still side loading the spindle.

Take a look at the narrow margin that creates the outside diameter of a drill. It is cylindrical in form. It is designed to guide the tool as it proceeds deeper into the hole. The drill essentially creates its own bushing. You do not want the sides of the drill to be able to cut going sideways. If it could, the hole would get egg-shaped and over-sized as every little uncontrolled sideways movement would result in the sides of the hole being cut away. The drill press controls this for us and that is why we can drill so much more accurately with them. We do not wear away the sides of the hole because the drill is not being tipped this way then that way as one might do with a handheld drill. Note that I said 'wear away' as the enlarging of the hole is more a function of friction than cutting because the sides of a drill do not cut, they rub when the drill is tilted.

The flip side of this coin is that a router bit, even with a drill point ground on it, would make a poor drill in a handheld tool. That is because it will readily eat away the walls of a hole with any slight deviation of the spindle. We can get away with it to a much higher degree with a plunge router because it is acting not only as a small drill press but also has a much higher quality spindle. But fail to constrain the router or the material correctly and you can have a mess on your hands quickly. Why? Because the cutting tool can cut in any direction and it will take material you don't want it to.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2008, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: Mortise Pal

Thanks for that info ... well, that just means I need a Domino for Xmas.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2008, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Mortise Pal

That's a long way away. Maybe you could persuade your wife to (give you)/(allow you to give yourself) a Thanksgiving present?
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2008, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: Mortise Pal

Hmmmm ... doubtful but worth a try. One reason I chose the Leigh D4R is the multiple mortise attachment is a nice capability (~$250). Only problem is it requires a 1/2" plunge router. ITat would mean I need an OF1400 to sit next to my 1010. However, if loose tenons are as good as traditional mortise/tenon joinery, then it would be about the same price to just buy a Domino.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2008, 12:41 AM
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Default Re: Mortise Pal

One thing that really popped out at me on the video is that the fit of the mortises were not shown up close. It was obvious to me that this tool is not being marketed as a precision tool, but as a work around for those who don't want to spend alot for precision and efficiency (Domino).
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2008, 03:36 AM
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Unhappy Re: Mortise Pal

Quote:
Originally Posted by EijiFuller View Post
One thing that really popped out at me on the video is that the fit of the mortises were not shown up close. It was obvious to me that this tool is not being marketed as a precision tool, but as a work around for those who don't want to spend alot for precision and efficiency (Domino).
Did you see the video? when he was dry test the mortise with the tenon, it was so loose that he faked making an effort to set it up right.

I would not buy that one. I know, who am i? to not recommend this tool, but that is my honest oppinion.


Last edited by fidelfs; 10-02-2008 at 03:44 AM.
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