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Old 07-26-2011, 03:18 PM
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Default Wood Door Refinishing Thoughts

OK, looking for some suggestions on refinishing our now 1 yr old front door. Yeah, I WAS hoping that the film finish would have last 2 years without work, but twas not to be. Soooo, I want to work on it BEFORE winter shows up.
Conditions, removing the door by myself probably isn't a good option due to its weight. And getting someone to help me isn't going to be easy for multiple coats while the door is horizontal on some saw horses. Which also means either putting the door back in each day or rigging up a plywood door to take its place while I work on the door in the garage with a car out on the street for room. That SEEMS like the best approach, with the least amount of possible damage to myself, any helper, and the door.

So, am I wishing for too much to work the finish in a vertical position if I use Epifanes or other high end varnish[Yep, hasslefactor, I'm counting on your unique boating/brightwork experience where the trim is often in place and not easily removed for working/refinishing].
Or should I resign myself to opt for working the door on sawhorses and not in place on the house? With varnish, this seems like the most sensible route.
Second thing, I was planning to carefully sand the door with my RS 2 since much of the door is flat and I want to go in gently and do no harm.
I really only want to correct the slight peeling at the bottom stile to rail joints, and add coatings to the whole door, so I'm thinking I MAY just use a scraper at those joints to remove the failed finish and not hit the stain layer too roughly, and then sand everywhere else for a scuff coat before revarnishing.? Thoughts, Comments...

Lastly, anyone have a door sweep model that they really like. The slip-in multiple door seal edge at the bottom of the door has failed and I need to replace it with something better.
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Old 07-26-2011, 04:10 PM
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Default Re: Wood Door Refinishing Thoughts

I suppose that photo is a year old because the finish doesn't look worn at all.

I wish I could help you with some miracle product I just invented. I'd be a millionaire in no time. Everyone wants a transparent finish that can actually stand up to UV but no one has one. The catalyzed polyurethane the airlines use is pretty good but when it starts failing (in a handful of years max) the whole finish has to be mechanically removed.



A clear finish needs to be protected from the sun, but this might be overkill.

This is a nice size but the real key to protecting the door is the titanium dioxide. The primary difference between a long lasting paint and a short duration clear coat is the UV blocking pigments. Take all the pigments out of the paint and they're pretty much the same.

Nice wood under a smooth clear coat out in the sun is really beautiful. As Laurie knows, it takes a lot of maintenance to keep it looking good. As far as the work goes I'd put up a temporary door and do the work in the garage as you outlined. If you're committed to maintaining the clear coat you might as well buy an inexpensive proper door that fits right because you'll need it again every couple of years.

Another not very appealing option is to add a glass storm door. Glass does a better job of blocking UV than varnish.

Last edited by MichaelKellough; 07-26-2011 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 07-26-2011, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: Wood Door Refinishing Thoughts

Another idea, hire an artist.


At this website
Trompe l'oeil flat metal elevator door.


Another example of simulated wood grain.

Last edited by MichaelKellough; 07-26-2011 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 07-26-2011, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Wood Door Refinishing Thoughts

That is a very attractive home entry -- as Michael suggests it is just begging for a small awning accent of some sort also providing the ~2 year finish protection.
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Old 07-26-2011, 05:04 PM
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Default Re: Wood Door Refinishing Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelKellough View Post
I suppose that photo is a year old because the finish doesn't look worn at all.

I wish I could help you with some miracle product I just invented. I'd be a millionaire in no time. Everyone wants a transparent finish that can actually stand up to UV but no one has one. The catalyzed polyurethane the airlines use is pretty good but when it starts failing (in a handful of years max) the whole finish has to be mechanically removed.



A clear finish needs to be protected from the sun, but this might be overkill.

This is a nice size but the real key to protecting the door is the titanium dioxide. The primary difference between a long lasting paint and a short duration clear coat is the UV blocking pigments. Take all the pigments out of the paint and they're pretty much the same.

Nice wood under a smooth clear coat out in the sun is really beautiful. As Laurie knows, it takes a lot of maintenance to keep it looking good. As far as the work goes I'd put up a temporary door and do the work in the garage as you outlined. If you're committed to maintaining the clear coat you might as well buy an inexpensive proper door that fits right because you'll need it again every couple of years.

Another not very appealing option is to add a glass storm door. Glass does a better job of blocking UV than varnish.
Heyyyy, I always wanted a curbside covered entrance. Agree that paint or a fibreglass door was going to hold up better in the sun, esp with the fact that we have NO awning or set-back to shelter ANY door that might be installed. But, after years of rusting steel door with very faded paint that we rubbed back once, we wanted the look of a real wood door, even though I fully know what's in store with having one. Sort of the brightwork worry on a boat. You love it when it's clean and shiny, you hate scraping, sanding and refinishing it to bring it back.
Do you have any experience with using Epifanes Varnish products?
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Old 07-26-2011, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: Wood Door Refinishing Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by RONWEN View Post
That is a very attractive home entry -- as Michael suggests it is just begging for a small awning accent of some sort also providing the ~2 year finish protection.
Thanks RONWEN, but we just removed 2 large awnings over the front windows that had been in place for decades, so adding a new, small entrance awning of some type probably isn't in the cards for us right now.
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Old 07-26-2011, 10:49 PM
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Default Re: Wood Door Refinishing Thoughts

No experience with Epifanes Varnish.

Can't tell from your photo but your best bet
is to put the door on the north side of the house.
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Old 07-29-2011, 03:21 AM
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Default Re: Wood Door Refinishing Thoughts

.

Laurie,

What a wonderful reply,

And I might add that this particular line is golden! ,,,,,

"All varnishes can be applied vertically. None of them will reward you for it. "



pssst, my vote is for the temp door.
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Old 07-31-2011, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: Wood Door Refinishing Thoughts

Thanks for all the good info. I didn't really think leaving the door in place to work on it was an option. THe door is totally non standard in its size, so using a standard door won't work, which means making one from scratch or adding to a smaller door with side/top pieces to match our "hole" for a temp door.
I'll look at that this week while I order the Epifanes and some better brushes. Here Laurie, some pictures of the door at the bottom.
I don't like the look of the joints in the door, seems like they're opening from the hot weather/humidity this summer.
At any rate, moving the west facing door to our North side just isn't an option..... Interesting thought though.....
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Old 08-01-2011, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: Wood Door Refinishing Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by hasslefactor View Post
Just FYI, before you order your (expensive!) Epifanes varnish and brushes....
  • Every time I've shopped for it, Jamestown Distributors always seemed to have the best price - sometimes half what other places sell it for. Awesome service, too.
  • Jamestown also offers quite a few of the Epifanes brushes. However, I ordered mine directly from Epifanes because (A) I needed a couple sizes that Jamestown didn't carry, (B) Epifanes carries the heavy duty brush keeper I was looking for (if you're interested, it's the first product on their list when you click the link - I got the 10 brush one); and (C) the price was marginally better.
Thanks for the new pics. The finish failure is so uniform along those joints, it almost looks as if the original varnish simply cracked under the stress of wood movement. Presumably (since it's a west-facing door) the bottom of the door gets a lot more heat and sun exposure than the top - otherwise it's a bit of a puzzle why the problem has only occurred at the bottom joints.

If wood movement is causing the failure, then I'm guessing that either the original finish wasn't a long-oil (spar) varnish, or that the original build wasn't thick enough, or both. Unfortunately, most varnishes labeled for "exterior" use are just interior products with a minimal amount of UV absorber mixed in. Getting any real UV protection from these products would require many, many, MANY coats... but of course the application instructions lead customers to believe that a couple of coats are adequate.

But there's a potentially far greater problem. Varnish with a "short" oil to resin ratio will be too hard and brittle to accommodate wood movement. Only spar varnishes - because of their high ratio or oil to resin - cure with the flexibility to withstand that kind of stress.

So, bottom line, I see two possibilities....

The good one:

If the finish already on the door is a long-oil (spar) type of varnish that only failed because it either had insufficient UV inhibitors in the formulation, or simply wasn't applied to a thick enough build, then it should be possible to repair the damage and (after building up the finish in the repaired areas) provide long-lasting protection to the entire door through application of multiple coats of a good marine varnish like Epifanes.

And the not so good one:

If the finish already on the door is failing because it is NOT a long-oil varnish - and therefore lacks the flexibility to tolerate wood movement - then it will in all likelihood continue to fail. Putting many coats of a marine varnish over it will still get you quite a bit of UV protection, but it won't stop the more brittle original layers of finish from cracking and lifting when the wood moves. The best you could hope for in THAT case is that the new coats prove to be sufficiently flexible to remain intact OVER the failed underlying finish... at least long enough to keep the water out while you decide what to do about it.

I am wishing you the GOOD one.
Yeah, I thought about all of that before I ever posted.Like, would this door require a full strip and recoat due to inferior product. Since it gets lots of sun on the WHOLE face, but more water at the bottom, it would seem like the finish is flexible enough, and is Spar Varnish. I haven't noticed any delamination anywhere on the door. I also think it was sprayed on, thin coats and that's its biggest weakness along with possible weak UV protection. Thanks for the ordering tips, I researched Jamestown awhile ago and came to roughly the same results as your post since you have posted about them before in boating threads and they have a good rep all around. Now to size up what cheap stock door will closely work our opening size, match the hinges so I only need to knock hinge pins out to transfer doors while working on the good one.
Add a mail slot to the temp door while I'm at it, paint it white to completely confuse the neighbors, and put it up for 2 weeks at a time. Yep, that should do it.....
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