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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2010, 04:02 PM
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Default New Super Chute

For those that got to test out the Super Chute at the LN hand tool event.. They have gone gold and are shipping out. If you have not used it; this is by far one of if not the best shooting board I have used. I will post a review with more pictures once it arrives.

I am also hoping I was able to be Fred on the ordering.

Here is the product page and item ordering page:
Super Chute
Products Page

If you have not been to the LN hand tool event, hopefully Ron Brese will chime in since he has had the prototype for many months.

back to saving up for a Brese smoother and a Benchcrafted bench.
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Old 06-27-2010, 03:45 AM
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Default Re: New Super Chute

Shawn I agree, this is an excellent product. Tico has a lot of work in developing this shooting board and the end result shows the effort he put into developing this accessory.

I had just a bit of input at the beginning stages of this product. Tico emailed and ask for my opinion about certain aspects of the shooting board design. My input was minimal, Tico set about building several prototypes of this shooting board before arriving at this final version which I think functions very nicely. It is slightly ramped but the idea here is not so much spreading the wear across the cutting edge of the iron as much as it is an ergonomic consideration making it more comfortable to hold the work piece in place as it is being worked.

I believe you'll see more well thought out and thoroughly developed products coming from Vogt Tool Works in the coming months.

Ron Brese

www.breseplane.com
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Old 08-21-2010, 07:39 AM
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Default Re: New Super Chute

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBrese View Post
Shawn I agree, this is an excellent product. Tico has a lot of work in developing this shooting board and the end result shows the effort he put into developing this accessory.

I had just a bit of input at the beginning stages of this product. Tico emailed and ask for my opinion about certain aspects of the shooting board design. My input was minimal, Tico set about building several prototypes of this shooting board before arriving at this final version which I think functions very nicely. ....Ron Brese

www.breseplane.com
Hi Ron

For reference (since this is not acknowledged on Ticos website - he only acknowledged using my website articles as a resource), Tico has essentially used my fence design (with a minor variation), along with accessories.

One of my articles (written 2 years ago): Shooting for Perfection

What is the same/different? Tico altered the connection (from the one I used) for the donkeys ear (I cannot understand why - his version loses adjustment capability), but kept the mitre fence as is. His simplification of the main fence design appears to be done for ease of mass production (my version has a sliding face for increased rigidity).

Please note that I do not claim credit for the ramped board concept. Essentially this design should go to Michael Connors. My input was to design and add the micro-adjustable fence system, the accessories and their attachment to the main fence.

Overall Tico has done a nice job and this looks to be a great tool.

Regards from Perth

Derek
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Last edited by derekcohen; 08-21-2010 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 08-22-2010, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: New Super Chute

Quote:
Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
Hi Ron

For reference (since this is not acknowledged on Ticos website - he only acknowledged using my website articles as a resource), Tico has essentially used my fence design (with a minor variation), along with accessories.

One of my articles (written 2 years ago): Shooting for Perfection

What is the same/different? Tico altered the connection (from the one I used) for the donkeys ear (I cannot understand why - his version loses adjustment capability), but kept the mitre fence as is. His simplification of the main fence design appears to be done for ease of mass production (my version has a sliding face for increased rigidity).

Please note that I do not claim credit for the ramped board concept. Essentially this design should go to Michael Connors. My input was to design and add the micro-adjustable fence system, the accessories and their attachment to the main fence.

Overall Tico has done a nice job and this looks to be a great tool.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Guys,

I do not want this to get out of hand and I have pm'd with Derek twice and spoken with Ron twice. In actuality Garrett Hack mentions and has a picture of a ramped shooting board on page 108 of his "Handplane" book from 1997.

Anyway, Derek, Michael Connor and Tico Vogt have all done great work and that in the end is all that matters.

Fred
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Old 08-22-2010, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: New Super Chute

The really super thing about Tico's shooting board is his use of UHMW on the runway for a very slick surface.
It appears to be an outstanding tool. The Renaissance Woodworker did a nice piece on it:
http://a.blip.tv/scripts/flash/strat...&enablejs=true
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Old 08-23-2010, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: New Super Chute

Quote:
Originally Posted by FredWest View Post
Guys,

I do not want this to get out of hand and I have pm'd with Derek twice and spoken with Ron twice. In actuality Garrett Hack mentions and has a picture of a ramped shooting board on page 108 of his "Handplane" book from 1997.

Anyway, Derek, Michael Connor and Tico Vogt have all done great work and that in the end is all that matters.

Fred
Hi Fred

That is not correct, or misses the point.

Yes, Garrett Hack has pictures of shooting boards in his book (I have the book). They are very far from incorporating the ideas/designs I mentioned earlier. The closest is a ramped board, but the direction of the ramp is uphill, not down hill.

To repeat, the board design was Michael Connors, the UHMW was yet another, while the design for the fence connection and adjustability was mine. I do not mind someone using my concept, but it would have been polite to ask first. It only began to get up my nose, however, when Tico started to claim the ideas for himself as part of his marketing advertising.

When I presented this to Tico he wrote back saying he had no qualms about taking and using anything on the 'net for his own purposes.

I don't plan to take this further, but it is important for me that the truth be known, and that original ideas be credited. There is no loss of quality in a product where good ideas are invested, even when they are not original. But the manufacturer is tarnished when it comes out that the designs were used commercially without permission.

Regards from Perth

Derek
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Old 08-23-2010, 05:19 AM
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Default Re: New Super Chute

I hope this doesn't toe the line too much but I wish to make known a level viewpoint:

Credit is due where credit is worth. And in this case Derek Cohen deserves the credit for the overall design of the now commercialized Superchute while we spare arguments over the techincal details of Tico's development.

Although patents are not involved on principal I think those familiar with design patent law and basic copyrighting of design would be in agreement there.

Hypothetical situation:
1) Mentally choose a plane on the market.. Lets just say a Veritas because they are unique.
2) Lets say another guy commercializes for sale a suspiciosly similar looking plane, same features of working, same dimensions, and calls it the all new "SuperPlane".
3) It has different timber for the handles, cast from stainless steel instead of iron, and different color paint.

4) Call a spade a spade it would be a Veritas plane with a different name for peetes sake!


To quote Tico's own words from a recent comments post found here.
"but it is very similar in basic appearance and function"

Derek is not a commercial woodworker/toolmaker seeking to profit from his ideas and thoughts. He does this for fun and I would like to think it will continue to be fun for him. Not so much fun now, when all Tico had to do was ask politely.
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Old 08-23-2010, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: New Super Chute

Hopefully by now credit has been given where credit is do.

Last edited by RONWEN; 10-01-2010 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:59 AM
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Default Re: New Super Chute

I just received my Super Chute & Donkey Ear -- Tico was nice enough to unpack one (and send it to me) from the load that he took to WIA.

The craftsmanship is absolutely superb in every way. It is well designed and even better well built.

EDIT: I spent some time using my new "Chute" over the weekend (when I should have been at WIA ) -- The tool is almost automatic the way your plane glides as it slices end grain! I used it prepping stock for dovetail layouts and it is a joy to use. Hopefully Tico sold out at WIA and some of you guys brought them home with you.
I'm also anxious to hear some of your thoughts on the new Hovarter Custom Bench Vise which appears to be a quantum leap in work holding. Hovarter Custom Vise | Traditional Appearance ? Contemporary Performance | Hovarter Custom Vise

Last edited by RONWEN; 10-04-2010 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:26 AM
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Default Re: New Super Chute

Tico posted about his new adventure at WIA:
Sold out in a good way.
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