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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2008, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: Sharpening - chisels, gouges, knives, etc.

What do you use to sharpen - kind of like political affiliation, blue collar / white collar, what branch of service were you in. Everyone tends to have the magic answer. And they're right. No finger pointing at present company, just generally, as far as boards go, what I've gleaned.
I don't have the right answer Fred.
What I have works for me. Perhaps, in the end, that's all the answer necessary. We get too wrapped up in a specific product being a panacea and not focused enough on learning how to use what we just bought.
I do not care for the couple of oil stones I have acquired. I like the Tormek well but only for shaping of the blade - putting, or replacing the primary bevel on. I go freehand on waterstones to 8000 after that, and I lap the flats the same way. If I forgot my meds that day, I have some 10K+ polish as well, but don't often use it.
The waterstones give me the secondary bevel and I will periodically touch up the edge with them in use. When it gets too far, I'll go back to the tormek, or if its a flat, I have the DMTs which work fine. Though mine are getting on in years and I am sure do not cut with the vigor they did a decade ago.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2008, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Sharpening - chisels, gouges, knives, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poto View Post
I've been using the scary sharp method, with Klingspor sandpaper on a piece of granite. I've been using the Veritas jig to maintain the angle. Works great for my chisels, but I haven't had great success yet with my plane blades. Probably my own lack of experience.

I'd been thinking of switching over to the DMT diamond stones, but the guy at Craftsman Studio says the Shapton ceramic stones are much better. I was just talking with Fred who says that the DMTs worked great for him - and of course they don't need flattening. At any rate, I had almost convinced myself to forgo the stones, and get the Worksharp. Now I'm not so sure.

Any advice?
Potatosan,

I am going to tell you what Leonard Lee says in his book about the Shapton stones and maybe that will help you.

"Ceramic stones are a variation of vitrified-bond stones.....They cut well when new but have such a hard bond that the abrasive particles become rounded in time, and since they cannot dislodge, the cutting action is reduced. To remain effective over time they should be lapped or refaced regularly. A good job for a diamond stone"

I know a couple of people that use them and absolutely swear by them for getting razor sharp edges but they do say they require a fair amount of work.

Fred
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2008, 08:18 PM
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Default Re: Sharpening - chisels, gouges, knives, etc.

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Originally Posted by woodchuck View Post
I tried the diamond stones, water stones with no luck. I bought the Tormek about 2 years ago and it works perfect everytime. Never had a better edge on my tools or knives as I do now.

Don
Don,

Again like all of these varied systems there seem to be large numbers of proponents as well as opponents. I have never used the Tormek but again I have heard wonderful things. I am convinced that there is not ONE way to sharpen but instead whatever works for each person. I would have sworn that either the MK II or the WorkSharp 3000 would have been perfect for me but instead I cannot seem to make them work for beans. Yes, even my beans did not get sharp.

Last night I worked a little bit more on this no name chisel that had been brutally abused. I have now lapped it on the Veritas Lapping Plate with 400x grit. I spent an hour and a half bringing the back to flat. I then spent approx. a half and hour on the fine stone bringing back the 25 degree bevel and then last night about the same time on the extra fine stone. Of course I also lapped the back slightly just to get rid of the burrs.

I then took it downstairs and pulled out one of my Lie-Nielsen chisels that has barely been used. I was shocked to see that without yet hitting the extra extra fine stone or any stroping the old chisel was actually sharper than the Lie-Nielsen.

At this point I cannot wait to see what my Lie-Nielsen and Ashley Iles chisels will cut like when I touch them up on the two finer stones.

Fred
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2008, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: Sharpening - chisels, gouges, knives, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanClermont View Post
I've always used waterstones. The japanese king stones are pretty good but go out of flat quickly and can muck up the backs of a blade or an edge if you are not careful.

I changed over to the Shapton's and thought they would stay flatter longer and they did. Unfortunately, they are a B to get flat again unless you buy the expensive diamond reference lapping plate.

Personally, I don't think you can get as good of an edge on a Veritas or Worksharp as you can freehanding it on stones (or using a jig) but that is just my humble opinion. In order to get a good edge on stones requires constant stone lapping so you have a perfectly flat surface.

Dan Clermont
Your CANADIAN FESTOOL DEALER!!!!
Dan, My Canadian Festool Dealer,

Thank you for your experience. Again it is really helpful to hear from each person as to what works best for them. A friend of mine has what I think is maybe the most unique solution for sharpening. Once his chisel becomes dull he goes and buys another one. :460: :460:

I take it from what you wrote the difference in your edges by using waterstones over the machines is quite appreciable?


Fred
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2008, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Sharpening - chisels, gouges, knives, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FredWest View Post

Last night I worked a little bit more on this no name chisel that had been brutally abused. I have now lapped it on the Veritas Lapping Plate with 400x grit. I spent an hour and a half bringing the back to flat. I then spent approx. a half and hour on the fine stone bringing back the 25 degree bevel and then last night about the same time on the extra fine stone.

Fred
And that's why the union carpenters Per knows just buy a new one when their chisel is dull.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2008, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Sharpening - chisels, gouges, knives, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poto View Post
Hey Dan - this is great news! A crack in the Hafele monopoly. How did you ever swing this? I bet a lot of Canadians are sleeping more soundly now.

How do you ever set prices? The way the Canadian and American dollars are dancing relative to each other, the price might change by 15% in an hour!
I've actually been importing them for about two months now. We started small and have been working out the kinks as we go. We are doing pretty well up here and inventory is moving quickly.

Getting allot of phone calls from people throughout the country and it has been fun so far.

We don't have Fixed pricing up here and I am trying to be as fair as possible with pricing. My quotes are pretty short term (one week). It has been giving me fits though as I can quote something with the exchange rate at $1.15 and a week later we are at $1.30 by the time it arrives.

My goal is to have one of each major tool in stock along with the accessories and Consumables. I am hoping to provide customer service like Bob Marino and Timmy C where my phone is always attached to my hip so I can answer questions and take orders seven days a week.

Dan Clermont
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2008, 08:53 PM
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Default Re: Sharpening - chisels, gouges, knives, etc.

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Originally Posted by joraft View Post
I'd like to know if anyone has experience working with D2 or M2 steel.
John,

I received an email a while back from Trent and the chisels will be manufactured with M2 only. He is no longer using the D2.

Fred
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2008, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Sharpening - chisels, gouges, knives, etc.

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Originally Posted by Okami View Post
Hello

I freehand all my chisels and blades with Japanese King water stones.
I keep them in water.
They do get out of flat pretty quickly, but are just as quick to flatten. Its an inexpensive and effective system.
I keep some wet and dry sandpaper next to the stones. After touching up a blade, I just give the stone a few swipes on the paper, to keep it flat enough.
Sharpening can be as simple or complicated as you want to make it. If the iron is sharp, I'm happy, it doesn't have to be perfection
cheers!
Okami:tigersmile:
Okami,

Which of the King stones do you carry and what do you use if you have to lap the back? By that I mean a blade that is not bad enough for a grinder but badly needs to be flattened. I am very glad you responded as I was wondering about the King stones. I saw that Fred Damsen of Japan Woodworker seems to really like and recommend them in his catalog.

Fred
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2008, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: Sharpening - chisels, gouges, knives, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanClark View Post
I went through several methods, including some Norton waterstones + an 8000 grit Shapton ceramic. The waterstones and Shapton ceramic went non-flat pretty quickly.

I got the Shapton lapping plate (OBSCENELY expensive!) and used it to lap the waterstones and Shapton ceramic. After only one session, I noticed that the lapping plate looked like some of the diamond had worn off. Although their documentation says that the plate is designed for the Shapton ceramic, they did NOT say that you could destroy your lapping plate using it on rough waterstones!!! When I pointed out to the Shapton customer support people that the lapping plate was now "compromised" because of their poor documentation and that they should replace the lapping plate, they said something like "Sorry... User error. Not going to replace it."

DON'T BUY SHAPTON!

I tried Scary Sharp using 3M lapping film from Tools for Working Wood. That worked pretty well, but the lower grits got used up pretty quickly.

Then I got two DMT 10" DuoSharp bench stones - one course/extra course and one fine/extra fine. I use the 3M lapping film for the final polishing. This has worked well and I'm happy with the results.

I'm thinking of getting a DMT 8" DiaSharp D8XX (extra extra course) and and a D8EE (extra extra fine) stone. The extra extra course would be better on the course end for quickly shaping blades. The extra extra fine might eliminate the need for the lapping film.

Regards,

Dan.
Dan,

Thank you so much. With the cost of that Shapton Lapping Plate I would be super pissed if I had your experience especially with their wonderful customer response and the lack of true documentation.

I am very happy to hear about your experience with the DMT stones. I have the 8' x 3' DMT DiaSharp extra extra course through extra extra fine. At this point they are without question the best I have ever used or more correctly I have achieved the best results with them.

Fred
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2008, 09:14 PM
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Default Re: Sharpening - chisels, gouges, knives, etc.

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Originally Posted by sToolman View Post
I can't say enough about my Worksharp. I was never good at sharpening and, ashamed to say, resorted to buying new chisels when my current chisels got dull. :stongue: Right out of the box, I got my first try using the Worksharp so sharp I could shave the hairs on my arms. I also had good luck restoring a keen edge on my otherwise dull block plane. 3 snaps up for the Worksharp.
BTW, I see Rockler's selling them for $150 on Black Friday.
Jim,

Thank you for your response and I am so pleased to hear that you have done so well with your WorkSharp. It just seemed to me like a no brainer and a wonderful setup but I just could not make it work for me.

Fred
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