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Hand Planes Dedicated to the galoot's favorite tool - the hand plane.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2009, 04:24 AM
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Default Re: Low budget performance

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Originally Posted by ColinWhite View Post
Okami,
Are you trying to shatter all of these fine peoples dreams by saying it doesn't mater what the tool is, It's the quality of the user is more important ?
to a certain degree yes. But more importantly, learning to use the tool to it's maximum. Getting used to it, and understanding it.
I could have one of the finest hand planes or chisels. If the blades weren't sharpened well, or set up properly they would perform badly...or I simply wasn't used to using it, and could do a better job with the old stanley or marples chisel, with a well sharpened blade and a familiar feel in the hand
Cheers!
Okami:tigersmile:
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2009, 04:27 AM
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Default Re: Low budget performance

To that point you are better to have fewer tools that you know well, the more you have the more difficult that becomes.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2009, 10:42 AM
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Default Re: Low budget performance

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Originally Posted by RONWEN View Post
The more that I learn about the craft the more that I realize that is absolutely very true. It almost seems to be inversely proportionate here.
Ai yi yi yi......Consider then a combination of high quality user plus high quality tool and whaddaya get?
In passing I must say that one shouldn't condemn Stanley or any of the others outright-they supplied usable tools to the masses for many years and folk did a ton of work with them. Some planes were better than others, or some were not as bad as others.
I think that after using Stanley and Record planes for most of my life, and recently having re-built/pimped up/ restored close to 80 of them I can say that they can be made to perform certainly better than when they first came out of the box-the question remaining is "Is it worth the bother?"
I would say "Not". But then one may enjoy the process-or have no other option.
End of sermon
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2009, 11:43 AM
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Default Re: Low budget performance

Philip, I certainly take your point. If we take Okami as a good example, he doesn't own any (possibly 1) Festools, as I recall an old, low end worn band saw, some Veritas planes which aren't "cheap" but also aren't considered high end planes -- who knows (if it's possible) how much better his work might be if he owned your incredible planes. I think especially in his case the difference might be in the enjoyment of using those beautiful, fine tools in his work.
The point I would make is that if you take me as an example, I was a skilled toolmaker working with my hands very early in my career (so I'm not all thumbs), worked at a desk most all of my remaining work life -- now put your amazing planes in my hands and in no way, shape or form will I produce something like Okami or Eiji do regularly.

I think for many the joy comes from owning such fine tools and they also will never become masters in the craft by using those tools -- and that is certainly OK. I do enjoy trying though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Marcou View Post
Ai yi yi yi......Consider then a combination of high quality user plus high quality tool and whaddaya get?
In passing I must say that one shouldn't condemn Stanley or any of the others outright-they supplied usable tools to the masses for many years and folk did a ton of work with them. Some planes were better than others, or some were not as bad as others.
I think that after using Stanley and Record planes for most of my life, and recently having re-built/pimped up/ restored close to 80 of them I can say that they can be made to perform certainly better than when they first came out of the box-the question remaining is "Is it worth the bother?"
I would say "Not". But then one may enjoy the process-or have no other option.
End of sermon
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2009, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Low budget performance

I'm a firm believer in the tool user being the ultimate reason for a project being good or bad. There's always something to be said for quality and a better tool makes work easier but that doesn't mean a budget tool can't get you the same result. Having the right tool is more important than having the most expensive right tool I think.

Keep in mind this is coming from a guy that's pretty young, just got married 2 years ago, just bought his house a year ago, is well past due for a promotion at work so he can have a little extra money every month, etc. I'm not quite at the point some of you tool addicts are so I've learned to buy good quality while not always being the best. I'm more interested in performance for the money than anything else.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-22-2009, 07:10 PM
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Default Re: Low budget performance

The tools can make the work easier or faster, but they don't make the work.

I have a soft spot for really well-made handtools, but I think it's important to know where the money is going. If you want to spend money to become a better woodworker, it's better to spend it on classes than tools.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-22-2009, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Low budget performance

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Originally Posted by raney View Post
The tools can make the work easier or faster, but they don't make the work.

I have a soft spot for really well-made handtools, but I think it's important to know where the money is going. If you want to spend money to become a better woodworker, it's better to spend it on classes than tools.
Well said!
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-22-2009, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: Low budget performance

I agree the most folks here - it's the user, not the tool. However, there's a big caveat here...

This rule applies IF you know what you are doing. If you're good, you can do a lot with cheap tools or you can tweak cheap tools to make them better. The gotcha comes when you're a noob and/or not your skills aren't that good at a task.

When you're good, you can spot screwups quickly. But when you're new or unskilled at a task, how do you tell if it's you or the tool that is at fault. The problem is that you can't - it could be you or it could be the tool, and you can't tell which.

It may seem counter-intuitive, but I believe that newbies and the unskilled need good quality tools more than super-skilled people. When you screw up using a good quality tool, at least its easy to find the source of the problem by looking in the mirror.

Regards,

Dan.
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