talkFestool  

Go Back   talkFestool > Projects, Methods, and Techniques > Finishing

Finishing How you make your work look great!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2012, 04:51 AM
Ausrob's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 511
Default The Great 5 Oil Burnish-off!

So, as I said I would do, I am about to launch into a comparison of different oil types used with friction sealing to give (hopefully) a superior finish. The 5 oils are:
1. Organoil Hard Burnishing Oil
2. Feast Watson Chinawood Oil
3. Wattyl Teak (Scandinavian) Oil
4. Cabot's Danish Oil
5. Liberon Pure Tung Oil (not shown.)

Pic 1 shows all but one of the suspects. I am unable to buy Liberon Pure Tung Oil on Sunday as the agents are not open. So I will buy that tomorrow morning and perform the burnish off in the afternoon.

Pic 2 shows the ETS150/3 which will be used for sanding the oil into the wood. The sander will run at Speed mark 6 and each pad will be used for 10 up and down passes before I move to the next pad.

Pic 3 shows the 400, 800 and 1200 pads that will be used. Each pad will be wiped down with mineral spirit prior to being used for the next oil.

Pic 4 shows the 1500, 2000 and 4000 pads to be used.
As suggested by Poto, each sanding step for each oil will be randomised, so that in the first instance I shall sand with 400g going from oil 1 to oil 5 sequentially. From here , each subsequent sanding step shall be started on a different oil sample, then another oil at random selected for sanding and so on through all the grits.

Pic 5 shows the figured Red Gum board which will be used as the comparison substrate. Hopefully you can see the figure. The board has been wiped down with Mineral Spirit to enhance the appearance for purposes of this photo.
Note that the board was sanded to 400 grit as follows;
a) 80 grit Brilliant pad used on a Rotex RO150 in orbital mode at speed mark 6.
b) 100 grit used as above.
c) 120 grit used as above.
d) 150 grit Brilliant pad used on an ETS150/3 at speed mark 6.
e) 180grit used as above.
f) 240 grit used as above.
g) 400 grit used as above.
Each pad was used for ten up and down passes before moving to the next grit.
The board was then wiped down with a tacxk cloth and then washed with mineral spirit.

Pic 6 shows the board marked off into segments, one for each oil to be evaluated.

More tomorrow. Any questions, fire away.

Regards,

Rob
Attached Thumbnails
great-5-oil-burnish-off-burnish_off_suspects.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-burnish_off_ets150-3.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-400_800_1200_pads.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-1500_2000_4000_pads.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-red_gum_figure_2.jpg  

great-5-oil-burnish-off-divisions_1.jpg  
__________________
http://www.damnfinefurniture.com
I don't have as many tools as most people here...but Gee I've got some pretty hardwoods!

Last edited by Ausrob; 09-02-2012 at 06:39 AM. Reason: CHange sanding to sealing, add paragraph regarding ramdom sanding routine
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2012, 05:26 AM
Poto's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 8,996
Default Re: The Great 5 Oil Burnish-off!

To make this really scientific you should randomize the order in which you do each step for each oil. Instead of going 1-2-3-4-5 (each number being an oil), you should use a random number generator for each step (grit).
__________________
I don't have as many Festools as Fred. Or Marcou's, or Brese's, or Lie-Nielsen's, or Lee Valley's, or Blue Spruce's, or Harold and Saxon's, or...
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2012, 05:33 AM
Ausrob's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 511
Default Re: The Great 5 Oil Burnish-off!

Hi Poto,

So, in order to randomize the process of sanding, I can start at one end and work along, but for the next grit, I should pick another test oil and sand that then move randomly to other oils. Yep that sounds like the answer I wanted for how to control pad use as it would be on a larger area, while not sacrificing the wear effect on the pads by using a new one on each oil.
Thanks Poto.
__________________
http://www.damnfinefurniture.com
I don't have as many tools as most people here...but Gee I've got some pretty hardwoods!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2012, 04:51 AM
Ausrob's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 511
Default Re: The Great 5 Oil Burnish-off!

So.....
I have finished the "great five oil burnish off". The results are in. First, let me say that I have pictorial data for all stages of the oil/sand process at the beginning and end of each oil incubation.
To begin:The oils were labelled as follows. Numbers will be used to identify the particular oils from hereon.

1. Feast Watson China Wood Oil.
2. Organoil Hard Burnishing Oil.
3. Wattyl Teak (Scandinavian) Oil.
4. Cabot's Danish Oil.
5. Liberon Pure Tung Oil.

Here is the way the sanding was performed with respect to random selection of oil in each sand.
[U]sanding position/U] (1 2 3 4 5)
grit
400 1 2 3 4 5
800 2 4 5 1 2
1200 5 3 1 2 4
1500 3 5 4 1 2
2000 4 2 3 5 1
4000 2 1 4 3 5

Pic 1 and 2 Show the appearance of the board under each oil after the first incubation. Pic 4 is 1,2 and 3. Pic 5 is 4 and 5.

Pic 3 to 7 show the board under the oils after the second incubation. Starting at Oil 1 and going through to oil 5.

It's interesting to note that the Liberon Tung Oil was very viscous in comparison to the other oils and particularly the China Wood Oil which should be pure Tung Oil.
I used the Liberon product neat, while the instructions suggested diluting up to 50% in White Spirit. Maybe the FW Tung Oil is already diluted. If so, I think I'd like to be able to determine my own concentration of the active ingredient.
I used the Liberon neat, because that is how I would use it in the Oil and sand.
The Cabot's Danish Oil also showed some residual oil on the surface after incubation 2. All the other oils and in particular, the Feast Watson China Wood Oil and Organoil HBO were very readily soaked up by the wood.
/Continued next post!
Attached Thumbnails
great-5-oil-burnish-off-end_inc1_1.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-end_inc1_2.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-end_inc2_1.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-end_inc2_2.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-end_inc2_3.jpg  

great-5-oil-burnish-off-end_inc2_4.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-end_inc2_5.jpg  
__________________
http://www.damnfinefurniture.com
I don't have as many tools as most people here...but Gee I've got some pretty hardwoods!

Last edited by Ausrob; 09-03-2012 at 04:54 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2012, 05:11 AM
Ausrob's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 511
Default Re: The Great 5 Oil Burnish-off!

/continued

Figs 1 to 5 Show the board under each oil after the sanding regimen was completed.

Figs 6-10 Show the grain patterns for each oil after a final wipe off with a soft cotton cloth.

In general, most oils presented clear fine detail in the grain after processing with the friction sealing protocol. It is my opinion that the Cabot's Danish Oil shows slightly less detail in the grain than the other oils.

I would have to say that ALL the oils tried were successful in accepting the protocol. There was no stickiness left on any of the samples and they all felt smooth and dry to touch. 24-48 hours would be adequate for the oils to be completely dry and ready to receive whatever protector you wish to use. Poly,Shellac or wax. That said, I have coated burnished timber with wax after a half an hour with no adverse effect. (Organoil Interior finishing oil, not used in this evaluation.

Therefore.I would suggest that Liberon Pure Tung Oil in an undiluted state would be acceptable for this method of finishing. It may be possible to dilute it in WHite SPirit, but I will attempt that another time.

Shine on the board across all samples was brilliant.

I would suggest that almost any Tung Oil derived product not containing Poly should work well with this burnishing technique.

I hope this is a satisfactory assessment and am ready to answer questions.

Regards,

Rob
Attached Thumbnails
great-5-oil-burnish-off-finished_sanding_1.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-finished_sanding_2.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-finished_sanding_3.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-finished_sanding_4.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-finished_sanding_5.jpg  

great-5-oil-burnish-off-figure_1.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-figure_2.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-figure_3.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-figure_4.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-figure_5.jpg  

__________________
http://www.damnfinefurniture.com
I don't have as many tools as most people here...but Gee I've got some pretty hardwoods!

Last edited by Ausrob; 09-03-2012 at 05:15 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-03-2012, 12:46 PM
TahoeTwoBears's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA - Minden, NV
Posts: 1,449
Send a message via ICQ to TahoeTwoBears
Default Re: The Great 5 Oil Burnish-off!

Rob,

Thanks for taking the time and energy to do this. It's really helpful.

Mike
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2012, 04:59 AM
Ausrob's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 511
Default Re: The Great 5 Oil Burnish-off!

Thanks, Mike. It's a pleasure.

I want to point out the difference that can occur within different "Oils".
Danish Oil is supposed to be Tung Oil, pure and simple.
All the oils used in this comparison are Tung Oil. But some are "more" Tung Oil than others.
Look at the two images below. The first image is that from the Cabot's Danish Oil. The second which was contiguous with the Danish Oil, is the Liberon Pure Tung Oil.
The white line I have pointed out is the one line going from the Liberon segment into the Cabot's segment. The resolution of the line is greater in the Liberon Oil than in the Cabot's. So if you use Cabot's Danish Oil, chances are you are not going to see very fine gradations in grain.
The third figure shows another part of the Wattyl and the Cabot's oils. On the Left is the Wattyl Oil and on the right is the Danish. There is more darker, vertical figure present in the Wattyl oil picture than there is in the Danish oil picture.

So..."oils ain't oils, Sol"

Regards,

Rob
Attached Thumbnails
great-5-oil-burnish-off-figure_4_24hr.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-figure_5_24hr.jpg   great-5-oil-burnish-off-figure_3_and_4_24hr.jpg  
__________________
http://www.damnfinefurniture.com
I don't have as many tools as most people here...but Gee I've got some pretty hardwoods!

Last edited by Ausrob; 09-04-2012 at 05:05 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2012, 12:49 PM
TahoeTwoBears's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA - Minden, NV
Posts: 1,449
Send a message via ICQ to TahoeTwoBears
Default Re: The Great 5 Oil Burnish-off!

I can't tell from the pictures, but I'll take your word for it. Liberon it is for me.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2012, 02:28 PM
Ausrob's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 511
Default Re: The Great 5 Oil Burnish-off!

Hi Mike,
There's more good news. You can dilute the stuff in the bottle down to 50% with White Spirits, cut down the incubation to 15 minutes and still get the same clarity.
I'll post the details tomorrow.

Regards,

Rob
__________________
http://www.damnfinefurniture.com
I don't have as many tools as most people here...but Gee I've got some pretty hardwoods!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2012, 03:21 PM
Okami's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,725
Default Re: The Great 5 Oil Burnish-off!

Rob, thanks for taking the time to undertake these tests and document them for usIt's interesting to see the differences between brands.
I wonder whether there is also a difference in their resistance to water and heat...
Cheers!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:33 PM.