talkFestool  

Go Back   talkFestool > Projects, Methods, and Techniques > Finishing

Finishing How you make your work look great!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2010, 01:26 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 119
Default Help! Finishing Soft Maple Frame

I am finishing a Maple frame and I applied a coat of sanding sealer last night. This morning a took a quick couple of passes with 220 grit then applied my stain. It came out blotchy and I don't understand why. Can anyone give me some hints. Did I over sand? I have sanded it down again and applied another coat of sanding sealer and waiting for it to dry and some help from all you professionals and hobbyist.
__________________
Mft/3, Mft/3 Kapex, Kapex 120, TS75, Domino, RO150 FEQ, C12
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2010, 04:12 AM
Perfect Little Angel
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bakersfield, CA.
Posts: 678
Default Re: Help! Finishing Soft Maple Frame

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodchuck View Post
I am finishing a Maple frame and I applied a coat of sanding sealer last night. This morning a took a quick couple of passes with 220 grit then applied my stain. It came out blotchy and I don't understand why. Can anyone give me some hints. Did I over sand? I have sanded it down again and applied another coat of sanding sealer and waiting for it to dry and some help from all you professionals and hobbyist.

I wouldn't apply sealer before staining, what's your reason for doing this? Are you going light, med., dark? You could apply what would be called a toner for med. to dark stains to help keep out some of the blotchiness. Maple is notorious for blotching up when going to darker tones, especially if you are trying to wipe on a stain. You'd have better results spraying if you are looking for that.

If you apply a sealer and then sand the sealer you are going to be staining over sealed and raw wood for the most part. If you use a toner which would be some stain or dye in a thinnded down sealer or top coat it helps the final finish to be more even because you won't over saturate open pore area's (especially end grain on doors, etc.).

Explain a little more about what you are trying to accomplish...
__________________
Chris...
www.brckitchenbath.com
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2010, 05:58 AM
PaulMarcel's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 817
Send a message via Skype™ to PaulMarcel
Default Re: Help! Finishing Soft Maple Frame

More information about the stain you are using would help. Is it water-based? Oil-based? Gel?

You likely wouldn't have the problem if you used a gel stain; they are oil-based and because they are so thick, they don't soak in as far limiting the blotchiness.

If the stain you have is oil-based, you can try a pre-stain conditioner. All that is is a stain without pigments. The blotch comes from more porous parts accepting more stain and the pigment build-up making it darker. With the conditioner, those parts accept a bunch of effectively clear stain. When you wipe it off then apply your stain, the whole surface should uniformly accept the same amount.

If you don't want to use a conditioner, dust it with a 1/2# cut of shellac to partially seal the pores (don't sand). Like Chris said, after sanding the sanding sealer (which loosely does the same as this shellac), you exposed some raw wood besides sealed wood.

If you have spray equipment, spray the stain on. Blotchiness comes from uneven absorption of the stain. By spraying -evenly- you put the same amount of stain everywhere. Naturally, don't wipe it or it defeats the purpose (sand later).

Lastly, if it is water-based, the spray option is great. If you don't want to spray it, you can -try- a conditioner. But conditioners are for oil-based... hmm... but it is just the carrier sans pigment... the carrier in water-based is water, which has no pigment. So, yeah, you can sponge the wood with water, wipe the excess, apply stain. I used this successfully with curly birch, though I was applying a dye (which actually blotches worse).

The other suggestions of toning or even glazing also would work well. Since you already have the stain, you can apply your topcoat clear then apply successive coats with some of the stain in the topcoat then finish up with multiple clears. I do think toning, though, makes for a different look. (Oh, to tF-ers reading this, his question was also on the FOG and the toning/glazing suggestion was there).

Let us know how it goes; hopefully you have some blotchy maple to try this out on (you might want to hit it with sanding sealer so you have the same starting point as your frame).
__________________
Visit my blog for Festool adventures.
Shirt size: L Twitter: @HalfInchShy
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2010, 06:47 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 119
Default Re: Help! Finishing Soft Maple Frame

I got this link https://charlesneilwoodworking.3dcar...trol_p_47.html from Wayne Nagel on FOG. It looks like a good product so I'm going to give it a try.
Just as an FYI, I am using a water based dye due to the color I'm trying to achieve. Thanks for all your help.
__________________
Mft/3, Mft/3 Kapex, Kapex 120, TS75, Domino, RO150 FEQ, C12
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2010, 07:28 PM
wnagle's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kent, Ohio USA
Posts: 338
Default Re: Help! Finishing Soft Maple Frame

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodchuck View Post
I got this link https://charlesneilwoodworking.3dcar...trol_p_47.html from Wayne Nagel on FOG. It looks like a good product so I'm going to give it a try.
Just as an FYI, I am using a water based dye due to the color I'm trying to achieve. Thanks for all your help.

Recently I did a cherry cabinet that needed to be much darker and instead of stain, I used Behlen's alcohol based dye and sprayed it which reduced the blotching over wiping the dye and it didn't raise the grain. I did one complete coverage coat of dye and then a second coat of touch up and feathering to even things out from my poor technique mostly. Then used pre-cat water borne lacquer as a top coat.

I'm not sure how it would work in your application with maple but it might be worth a try on some samples too. Once you get a good formula that works for you you can save it and make your next project a little easier maybe.

I'm guessing Charles Neil's new blotch control will work pretty good from what I see on the video.

__________________
Wayne

Kapex, Domino, Trion PS 300, RO 150, ETS 150/3, Deltex 93, 2 CT 33's, OF 1400, MFT/3...
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:00 AM.