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Finishing How you make your work look great!

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2010, 04:01 AM
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Default Re: HVLP Turbine

Yes I have the Maxum II guns and they work just fine. You have a slight learning curve if you are used to conventional spray guns. I just got in and I will update more tommorrow. You have made a fine purchase and I will share my experience with them later. I still have the first Capspray turbine I got from Glidden Paint in 1982. Maybe it is a flyover state thing...lol
Matt
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: HVLP Turbine

Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrol View Post
Yes I have the Maxum II guns and they work just fine. You have a slight learning curve if you are used to conventional spray guns. I just got in and I will update more tommorrow. You have made a fine purchase and I will share my experience with them later. I still have the first Capspray turbine I got from Glidden Paint in 1982. Maybe it is a flyover state thing...lol
Matt
Thanks Matt!
I'm looking forward to learning a few tips from You
I haven't used any type of spray gun before, so I don't have any old habits
Cheers!
Okami
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: HVLP Turbine

When I spray I always hold the air hose behind my back with my non-dominant hand to keep it out of the way and out of the finish. Always overlap your spray pattern to keep a wet edge. You will need to practice
To get a rhythm going and the material your spraying will dictate how fast and how far away from the surface you need to be. A neat thing about the hvlp guns is that you can quickly adjust from horizontal to vertical and also a round, pinpoint like spray pattern. By loosening the aircap retaing ring and adjusting the aircap . The horizontal pattern works well with sides and interiors of cabinets, the vertical pattern is used when spraying flat surfaces and the round is great for interior corners and stuff like balusters. When I am done spraying a water based system I unhook the gun from the turbine, remove the cup, take the gun to a scrub sink and turn the gun over and let water run into the material tube and hold the trigger open. When the water coming out of the tip is clear I turn the gun over and let the rest drain out still hold the trigger open, there will be some finish still in the gun so repeat until it drains clear. I then dry the gun and put the retaing ring,aircap,and spring plate into the cup with lacquer thinner when not in use. Donít let water sit in the cup. Keeping the guns clean is very important. Never put anything into the cup that hasnít been strained.! I always use cone filters and with water based finishes medium works well. I always use 2 filters together out of habit. Hope this helps.
Matt
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Old 04-30-2010, 01:20 AM
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Default Re: HVLP Turbine

Thanks Matt, for the info! It all helps me get an understanding of how I should be approaching spraying

Generally speaking, when You spray waterborne finishes with Your turbine and MaxumII Gun, do You thin the material?
There seems to be a lot of ajustment for air and material flow with the Spray Gun. The material adjustment has about 9-10 turns to play with.
Generally speaking, where should I start at in terms of air and material flow? Is there any kind of good starting point, that I can then tweak?

Thanks for the advise so far, It's helping

Cheers!
Okami
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: HVLP Turbine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Okami View Post
Thanks Matt, for the info! It all helps me get an understanding of how I should be approaching spraying

Generally speaking, when You spray waterborne finishes with Your turbine and MaxumII Gun, do You thin the material?
There seems to be a lot of ajustment for air and material flow with the Spray Gun. The material adjustment has about 9-10 turns to play with.
Generally speaking, where should I start at in terms of air and material flow? Is there any kind of good starting point, that I can then tweak?

Thanks for the advise so far, It's helping:)

Cheers!
Okami
It's very useful & informative to us all.
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Old 04-30-2010, 03:54 AM
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Default Re: HVLP Turbine

The material that you are spraying should have info. on how much you can thin it. The Mohawk rep. tells me no more than 10% thinning with their water-based conversion varnish with water. The manufacturer may have a product to thin their product with, probably some glycol based(anti-freeze) product that they recommend. Trial and error will help. I have spent 20 years tryng to come up with a water based system that will compete with a lacquer/solvent based system and I have found that I need to change the way I think about how I finish a project. Lacquer worked great for certain production systems and was realtively inexpensive and quick but the waste issue has become a problem. The cost of any auto body repair you encounter has a lot to do with the disposal of the hazardous solvents and not about the actual work being done,"IMHO". If I was in your position I would experiment with any stains you may be asked to use, on any material you may be asked to use, and spray whatever finish you choose and see what happens, and keep notes.
Your in a great position in that you have not been trained with one system and now have to adapt to another. Okami, your work is really amazing and I am trying to imagine the problems you will encounter as you switch to how you finished you product before and how you will finish your product now. I apologize if this is redundant but the water based finishes have a blue milky look when first applied that will gradually disappear. You will soon be able to gauge the correct amount of material applied by that milky appearance. You will need to do a dry run of your finish schedule much like you do a dry run when you glue up a project. It may sound silly but in the beginning pretend you are spraying your project, move it to a drying area, spray the next piece, move it to the drying area and so on. There is nothing worse than wandering around your shop with a handfull of wet product and nowhere to put it while the turbine is running and your potlife window is disappearing. Thanks for letting me get on my soapbox for a while. You will get results that can exceed anything you can do with a brush, a heck of a lot faster once you get it down. Finishing requires you to get into a different frame of mind than you have while you are creating your piece, but you know that already.
Matt

Wow, all you asked was about thinning...lol
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2010, 04:06 AM
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Default Re: HVLP Turbine

Okay, with a heavy water based system I would start with the the fluid adjustment knob all the way out, meaning the most fluid is being sprayed, the air adjustment knob adjusted to the max and see what happens. If you are not thinning your product and using a #4 tip this should be fine. If it is running all over the place back it off the fluid adjustment. The air atomizes the finish and if it is too high you can get some orange peel. Orange peel is a problem with the faster drying solvent based finishes but not so much with slower drying water based finishes. You won't know how bad the orange peel is with the water based finish until it has set up for quite awhile. This is why you will need to experiment.
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: HVLP Turbine

Matt,
Thank You very much, I feel a lot more confident after reading all the information, especially about air and material flow
If You or anyone else have and more nuggets to share, don't hold back
Cheers!
Okami
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2010, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: HVLP Turbine

What all can you use with airless? I thought (what do I know?) that airless was only for latex etc?

I'll comment there. I have 3 of them. You can use an airless for almost anything. That being said, it's just like any other spray system or tool in that it has its own unique characteristics, and you have to play within those boundaries to get good results.
#1 is a little Graco 395 which is going on 10 years and is solely a latex pump. I won't put anything else thru it. You start mixing products and you'll never get one cleaned out enough to not muck up the next one. It is set up pretty much like it came. I have added a whip on the end for flexibility, and I'm on my 3rd gun, but the pump itself is fine. It uses traditional airless tips with bunny ears on them, like the Graco RacX.
#2 is an identical pump, a 395, that is strictly a lacquer pump. No cat or precat, just nitro. Same thing with getting the lines clean. I use that in houses for finishing trim. The whip is much thinner and a couple feet longer, and the tip is called a flat tip. It has no ears, it has a tiny little filter inside the tip itself, and the whole thing is about the size of a disposable earplug. It does move a thin product like lacquer pretty fast, even with a restrictive tip on the end. But once you're used to it, its kind of nice. Keeps you moving with a sense of purpose and gets things done.
#3 is a MkV which I believe is the biggest thing Graco makes without a gas motor on it. Thats also latex or water based, but the hoses are huge, the intake is as big around as an aerosol can. Its designed to either run multiple guns at once or do heavy bodied products like drywall texture, block filler, or surfacers. It has enough oomph that I can stick the tube into a bucket of unthinned mud and spray it. But you don't want to; it'd look like crap.

On any airless, the pump itself lets you control the pressure it is trying to maintain in the lines (which affects pattern and speed) and the tip determines what size and shape the pattern is, and what size hole the fluid is exiting. I suspect you are at least passably familiar with Bernoulli's principle regarding fluid pressure and speeds. Thats entirely what an airless is built around. Without atomizing air being supplied, the atomization is entirely dependent on the pressure behind the tip being converted to speed going through the hole.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2011, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: HVLP Turbine

Okay spray Guru's, today I was putting down a coat of sanding sealer on a Japanese Nara table top. The coat seemed to lay down quite nicely.. I returned 15 minutes later. I noticed at angles in the light, I had left what can only be described as "trail marks" where I had made my strokes.
I haven't noticed this before I'm using the same turbine, gun Setup and the same product.
What have I done wrong please
cheers!
Okami
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