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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2009, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: Edge Joining Glue Up

Looks like I also better do some reading & learning about planes -- Woodcraft has smoothing, scrapping, scrubing, and block planes. A quick read there sounds like I would want either a smoothing or scrapping plane. That is unless you tell me the new Festool plane is the answer? Fow somw reason it appeals to me even though I couldn't think of a use for it (until now?).

Ron
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2009, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: Edge Joining Glue Up

Ronwen,
Another trick is to apply blue painters tape where squeeze out might occur, and don't leave it on there too long.
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Old 03-14-2009, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: Edge Joining Glue Up

When you wipe off glue with a wet rag, you don't find that it just spreads the glue further and deeper into the grain?

Yes, but not bad. At the same time, I'm still sanding after that, and invariably removing enough material to make the whole thing pretty much moot.

Probably makes a difference too which wood we think we're talking about. If I'm sitting here visualising cherry and you're thinking about red oak . . .
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Old 03-14-2009, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Edge Joining Glue Up

From FWW July/August 2003:

Problem: Yellow glue and stain

Stain will not penetrate any spot that has been wiped clean from yellow-glue squeeze- out. What do you suggest?



Answer: This is a common problem among woodworkers. There are several options. The first one is to use less glue. Most woodworkers feel as though they must have bountiful squeeze-out to have a good glue bond. Not so! Apply just enough to have tiny beads barely squeezing out.

Then, there's option two: Don't touch it. Don't wipe it. And absolutely do not use a wet rag to remove the excess glue. The water rag is full of dissolved glue, which, when wiped on the wood, ultimately seals the pores. This causes uneven stain absorption. Allow those tiny pearls of squeezed-out glue to harden a little. When they're skinned over, a sharp chisel pops them off perfectly. A little sanding, and then—voikk!—no glue spots.

If the joint is a tabletop or some type of flat surface, sanding is in order anyway. If it is a table apron mortised into the leg, there is no need to put glue on the shoulder of the tenon area—it is edge grain and won't add strength anyway. Skip the glue on the outside shoulder entirely.

Or, as a third consideration, you might try switching from yellow glue to hide glue. It accepts stain just a little better than yellow glue does.

Last, if you just love squeeze-out, stain your pieces (other than surfaces) before final assembly. Then a damp rag won't cause the wood to take glue unevenly.
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Old 03-14-2009, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Edge Joining Glue Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by RWeber View Post
When you wipe off glue with a wet rag, you don't find that it just spreads the glue further and deeper into the grain?

Yes, but not bad. At the same time, I'm still sanding after that, and invariably removing enough material to make the whole thing pretty much moot.

Probably makes a difference too which wood we think we're talking about. If I'm sitting here visualising cherry and you're thinking about red oak . . .
Ha, very true, I was thinking Red Oak, because that was what I just did glue ups on yesterday for some cabinet doors.

Ron,
Woodcraft has their own line of handplanes now, called Woodriver. I keep hearing VERY good things about them, even from guys who swear by Lie-Nielson (I have a Lie-Nielson, LOVE it, can't wait to get more.) The woodrivers are very inexpensive for as good as I am hearing they are. May be a great place to start.
I don't think the Festool power planer will be useful for what you are needing. Its kind of two different animals, hand planes and power planes.

Just realize, the first time you use a well tuned handplane, you will be hooked!
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Old 03-14-2009, 05:53 PM
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Default Re: Edge Joining Glue Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by RONWEN View Post
Looks like I also better do some reading & learning about planes -- Woodcraft has smoothing, scrapping, scrubing, and block planes. A quick read there sounds like I would want either a smoothing or scrapping plane. That is unless you tell me the new Festool plane is the answer? Fow somw reason it appeals to me even though I couldn't think of a use for it (until now?).

Ron
Ron,

I have the Festool HL850. I think it's great, but I don't think any power hand planer is the right choice for this kind of job.

I can't add much to what others have written here, but they sound like better options.

Regards,

Dan.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2009, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: Edge Joining Glue Up

If you're really worried about it, you can cut a very fine channel parallel to the edges of your pieces, to allow the glue to pool there. However, it might lead to a slightly open joint at the visible (top and bottom) parts.

I just let the glue dry, and then scrape it off. A crank-necked chisel is good for this (NEVER use a regular chisel - it'll dive and take a chunk out of your wood - DAMHIKT), or Groz makes a scraper with a long handle that works well. I've never had a problem with my tung oil finish not penetrating after doing this - but if you use a wet rag, you'll be toast - especially on end grain.

You can always sand to final thickness after glue-up. Might not be as perfectly flat as a planer, but it'll work.

I don't know about using the Festool (or any other) hand plane for large flat surfaces. Per has used it for planks of wood, but I'd worry a bit about a table top, for instance. I guess it can be used on floors...
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2009, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: Edge Joining Glue Up

P.S. My conclusion as a newbie hand plane/hand scraper is that it's a lot harder than it looks, and you really have to camber your blade so you don't get ridges!
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I don't have as many Festools as Fred. Or Marcou's, or Brese's, or Lie-Nielsen's, or Lee Valley's, or Blue Spruce's, or Harold and Saxon's, or...
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2009, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: Edge Joining Glue Up

I just finished a table top assembly. I clamped it up late at night so the glue dried overnight and was far to hard to scrape. I used a chisel to sheer off the beads but in a few places the grain was short and little chips of wood popped out. Regrettable but no big deal in itself because there was still plenty of sanding needed for final flattening. If I had wiped the glue while wet all traces of it would have been eliminated by the sanding.

As said in the FWW article John posted, the best way to deal with squeeze out is to let it skin over (half hour or so) and then shear it off with something sharp. I like those 4" wide razor sharp scraper blades that you normally use in a long handle. I just use the blade by itself and bend it a little so it only drags the surface along the joint. Keep a damp paper towel on hand to wipe off the glue that sticks to the blade so you don't smear it into the wood.

Better still is do what Jerry Work does, finish all the parts including adding the finish and then you can wipe the glue off completely. Except for table tops, he has a wide belt sander.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2009, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Edge Joining Glue Up

I've not tried it, but Lee Valley makes a flush cut plane (Veritas® Flush Plane - Lee Valley Tools), and Bridge City used to make something they called a Flushing Chisel (stunningly gorgeous and I really want one!!!). Both of these are basically a bevel-up plane blade that can be moved flush to the surface to clean up glue or trim dowels. I'm planning on getting the Lee Valley one next time I'm in Canada - it looks like a really convenient tool. The blade's held in place with a rod and a magnet, so you can pull it off, flip it around in the handle, and it won't stab you if you keep it in your pocket.
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