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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2010, 10:12 AM
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Default kapex...that's good ?

Hi everybody...

i'm writing from Italy!

i'mlooking for a mitre saw and i love festool product..

but here , in italy , the kapex 120 is very expensive , 1185€...

i've heard the kapex it's good but not for this price... the other mitre saw are better ( bosch , hitachi , de walt )

can you , kapex owner , tell me if hte kapex is a really good tools or there are other mitre saw who are better ?

thanks
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Old 03-13-2010, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: kapex...that's good ?

Hey Seb,

I have tried most of them, even used a DeWalt for some time, but I now own 2 Kapex's. When buying my second one I went out and looked at the Makita LS1016L, and while it looked like a pretty nice saw (they now have a 12" one out), it just wasn't worth me losing some of the nice Kapex features to save a few bucks (you'd be hard pressed to set the Makita in 1 degree bevel increments, and the Kapex .25 is easy). The precision beveling, sturdiness, dust collection, speed control (for different material) and overally quality of the Kapex just can't be beat.

This first version of the Kapex may not be a perfect saw yet but it's getting pretty close and I don't wanna use any other ones.
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Old 03-13-2010, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: kapex...that's good ?

SEB,

Welcome to talkFestool! I have fond memories of Italy (especially the food) of a brief vacation in Italy. We spent time in the Cinque Terre region (stayed in Monterosso al Mare), Siena, and Firenze. We did the tourist things and loved what we saw, but my overriding memory was the incredible food. A simple bowl of pasta with fresh Pesto that we had in the Vernazza town plaza was heavenly! There are other countries that we'd like to go back and visit, but Italy... Italy is at the top of our list.

Moving on to miter saws...

Are there better miter saws? That's a tough question. It depends on the features you need and who you ask. The Kapex is a very good tool. I have one and love it.

For me, the Kapex's light weight, dust collection, accuracy are very important. It has to be light so that I can move it to the work site and to keep it stored on a shelf when not in use. I almost always work inside so the Kapex dust collection makes this doable.

About the only two issues I've found are the the lasers can get knocked out of alignment and the turntable is a bit stiff. The laser issue bothers me, but they can be realigned. The stiff turntable takes getting used to, but it's fine once you learn to work with it.

There are only two other miter saws that I would consider: the Milwaukee 6955 (Amazon.com: Milwaukee 6955-20 12-Inch Sliding...Amazon.com: Milwaukee 6955-20 12-Inch Sliding... or the Makita LS1016L (Amazon.com: Makita LS1016L 10-Inch Dual Slide...Amazon.com: Makita LS1016L 10-Inch Dual Slide... ).

I've never owned the Milwaukee, but it is supposed to be pretty accurate and have good dust collection. The major downside for me is weight and size - it's a heavy bugger and takes up a lot of space. If you want it for a fixed installation in your shop and you have the space, then it might be a very good option.

I HAVE owned the LS1016L. I bought it, returned it (twice), and then bought the Kapex. Here's a thread with pics describing how I built a table top for the miter saw stand I used with my LS1016L: http://www.talkfestool.com/vb/non-fe...per-stand.html.

Although it a fairly light saw with nice features (especially the turntable), I found two issues with it. The minor problem was dust collection - it was fairly poor. The major problem with the LS1016L was arbor runout (blade wobble). After finding arbor runout in the first one that I bought, I returned it and bought the second. And that one had arbor runout too. That was completely unacceptable. So I returned it and bought the Kapex (which has NO arbor runout).

IF you can find a LS1016 with no runout, I think it's a reasonable alternative to the Kapex. It's got a different mix of features, benefits and issues. It's not necessarily better, but it may be a good alternative. And it's a lot less expensive, at least here in the US.

Regards,

Dan.

p.s Another Kapex thread:

Kapex Owners - I need feedback about...
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Old 03-14-2010, 04:04 PM
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Default Re: kapex...that's good ?

There are some good saws out there that are more affordable and not much different than the kapex. Some might not meet some of the capacities and some surpass its capacities and most companies have been improving dust collection in the last 5 years if thats a concern. Some good contenders for the kapex would be...

Hitachi C10FSH 10” Sliding Dual Compound Miter Saw with Laser Marker
HITACHI Power Tools: Products > Woodworking > Saws > C10FSH 10” Sliding Dual Compound Miter Saw with Laser Marker
Its lighter than the kapex at 43lbs and Hitachi developed the first sliding compount miter saw so they probably know what their doing. If you want more capacity and able to put the saw next to a wall like the kapex, check out the...

Hitachi C12LSH 12" Sliding Dual Compound Miter Saw with LCD Display and Laser Marker
HITACHI Power Tools: Products > Woodworking > Saws > C12LSH 12" Sliding Dual Compound Miter Saw with LCD Display and Laser Marker,
I believe both of these Hitachi saws were introduced around 2006 so at the time, the kapex was not a contender. I would expect some great things coming from their next generation models. This model has the rail forward design like the kapex and an screw knob to adjust the bevel angle like the kapex. I would say if Festool used a saw to build theirs around, it was this saw.

Now on to Makita...

Makita LS1016L 10" Dual Slide Compound Miter Saw with Laser
Makita USA - Tool Details - LS1016L
This saw is a little heavier than the kapex at 52lbs but has pretty much identical cutting capacities, especially in the nested crown and verticle base positions. Also this is a very recent model, it has the larger support fences.

Makita LS1216L 12" Dual Slide Compound Miter Saw with Laser
Makita USA - Tool Details - LS1216L
This is a brand new model just released. It has some serious cut capacities! It weighs in more at 58lbs, but this saw is not a contender for the kapex, that would be its little brother, it is for someone that needs to cut larger pieces.

So that is just a little info to ponder over. If I were buying, I would strongly consider these 4 saws and would be looking for great things to come from Hitachi in the future. I would not consider the kapex until a new model is released. I do not own one of this current model, but have used one briefly. Festool makes some awesome tools, but this one still needs some massaging. It has some really great features and has set the bar for all the other companies to work up to, but for a first generation, it still needs some work.

Last edited by CECabs; 03-14-2010 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 03-14-2010, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: kapex...that's good ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CECabs View Post
...I do not own one of this current model, but have used one briefly. Festool makes some awesome tools, but this one is their lemon. It has some really great features and has set the bar for all the other companies to work up to, but for a first generation, it still needs some work.
CECabs,

"Lemon" is a very strong term. Based on your personal experience with the Kapex, what specific issues did you find that cause you to refer to as a "lemon"?

Also, you are aware that Festool has already made some changes to the saw, aren't you? How long ago did you use the Kapex? Was it the original version or the new one?

Regards,

Dan.
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Old 03-14-2010, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: kapex...that's good ?

Maybe this helps:

This past Friday I was working in someones else shop and had to use non-festool mitersaws. There was a Dewalt and a Hitachi. Having worked with my kapex for 6 months now, I could clearly feel the difference! For one, there were the safety guards that didn't really work, one saw had quite a bit of blade deflection that resulted in burn marks....

Anyhow, after 5 hours I was glad it was over!
This shop will be my new workplace I hope I'm allowed to bring my Kapex with me. Nothing worse than disliking the tools you have to work with
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Old 03-14-2010, 05:28 PM
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Default Re: kapex...that's good ?

Will you be the only one using your tools or are you potentially going to slide into a situation where others will be "borrowing" you tools?

If I seem to recall, you had some unhappy experiences before with people in "borrowing" mode

Jay
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Old 03-14-2010, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: kapex...that's good ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayKnoll View Post
Will you be the only one using your tools or are you potentially going to slide into a situation where others will be "borrowing" you tools?

If I seem to recall, you had some unhappy experiences before with people in "borrowing" mode

Jay
Correct, I had some issues with my next door neighbor who misused my trust. I learned from that.
I think with the new crew, I will have to slowly introduce them to myself and the way my tools work. My Festools are my babies and therefore I have to make sure they know that I wont be a happy camper if they are just taking them.
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Old 03-14-2010, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: kapex...that's good ?

You sure get excited easily! Yes, that is why after reading my post again I decided that is too strong of a term and removed it, but I guess you already had copied it before the edit took place. All you have to do is read the FOG and you will find hundreds of posts about problems with the kapex. I really like the features the saw has, but its got some problems and its not myth. I, myself am not going to pay a premium price for something that has issues. Sure they are correcting the issues, but like I said I will wait for a new generation and I am sure there will be a second generation sometime in the future. I think all other Festools are great and worth their price, but this one just doesn't earn it in my book. And besides, its my opinion and thats all it is. If you have a different opinion, well thats why its yours. If everyone had the same advice for the originial questioner, then what good was it to ask the question?
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:03 AM
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Default Re: kapex...that's good ?

CECabs,

The issue is not about posting opinions. Posting opinions, even when you disagree with mainstream opinions, is what talkFestool (and FOG) is all about. However, when you post a strong opinion, especially one which is a strongly worded, you should be prepared to support your opinion with details - preferably based on personal experience.

For example, my opinion about the Bosch 4410, Makita LS1016, and Kapex is based on personal experience having owned all three. Regarding the LS1016, did you know that the combination of mediocre dust control and position of the bevel gauge means that the bevel gauge gets covered with dust after a short cutting session? So it's difficult to read. Did you know that the bevel on the LS1016 only goes to 45 degrees? Did you know that the Bosch 4410L with stand adapters weighs 75lbs? And that the Bosch laser is one of those cheesy arbor add-on things? This is what I mean about supporting your opinion.

Regarding the Kapex, most of the initial issues have been resolved. No owner would say that they are perfect. They are not. OTOH, based on my personal experience, they are better they any other miter saw out there for my needs. If Makita fixed the dust collection issue and the arbor had no runout, I'd be pretty happy with the LS1016. Each to his own. YMMV.

Regards,

Dan.
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