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-   -   Festool VS 600 (http://www.talkfestool.com/vb/festool-reviews/727-festool-vs-600-a.html)

JackRafter 08-25-2008 04:40 PM

Festool VS 600
 
Iíve been putting the Festool VS 600 through its paces and have uncovered three issues.
The first being some play in the template mounting bar: http://www.josephfusco.org/Videos/Vs_600_play.html :popcorn:
The two others involve the OF 1010 router and the clamping knobs:http://www.josephfusco.org/Videos/Vs_600_obstructions.html :popcorn:
Excuse the quality of the videos as I did them fairly quickly and also the links as there doesnít appear to be a way to embed here.:cool:
If anyone has a fix for the mounting bar Iím all ears. :D

ChrisM 08-25-2008 05:23 PM

Re: Festool VS 600
 
Joseph,

I've never noticed any quality issues in the final products (drawers I make). Have you not been able to make a good joint with it very quickly? I think it's great and can bang stuff out pretty quickly with it. I would like to point out a few of things though in consideration of your concerns.

1. The unit self aligns when you lift up and lock the handles in. The template should be pushed against the fence and hold down knobs tightened with the handles in the upright position (locked).

2. The router dust port will not hit the template hold down knob with just a slight twist of the router. Not a big deal to me.

3. I haven't had the dust extraction hood hit the stock alignment tabs probably just because I back the extraction hood off quite a bit. It may not collect dust as well the way I use it but it still get's a lot of it and clears everything. It's adjustable for things like this.




Quote:

Originally Posted by JackRafter (Post 5659)
I’ve been putting the Festool VS 600 through its paces and have uncovered three issues.
The first being some play in the template mounting bar: http://www.josephfusco.org/Videos/Vs_600_play.html :popcorn:
The two others involve the OF 1010 router and the clamping knobs:http://www.josephfusco.org/Videos/Vs_600_obstructions.html :popcorn:
Excuse the quality of the videos as I did them fairly quickly and also the links as there doesn’t appear to be a way to embed here.:cool:
If anyone has a fix for the mounting bar I’m all ears. :D


JackRafter 08-25-2008 06:36 PM

Re: Festool VS 600
 
Chris,

Actually, I like the jig a lot and I have been able to get good joints. I find it fast and easy to use except for those issues, and from my vantage point they are issues. One would think that for an entry price of about $800.00 you'd get better precision and not have things bump and grind each other, no?:D

As for the mounting bar, how can it be self aligning if it has play in it? The right side of the jig is self aligning because after you adjust the in & out with the wheel the position is maintained. The same can't be said for the left side. As the bar travels up it's moving and thus you can't be assured of proper alignment on that side.:smad:

JerryWork 08-25-2008 11:05 PM

Re: Festool VS 600
 
Hi Jack,

What you show in your video is normal action when the lock levers are unlocked as they were when you did the video. There is designed-in play between the lock lever bolt and the slot cast into the lock mount. That allows the template bar to move easily up and down without binding to accommodate different thicknesses of workpieces.

Look at the lock lever from the side of the jig. Notice how the lock lever has a cam on the base that pushes a wedge plate inward against the cast lock mount. The sides of that wedge plate mate against a same slope track cast into the lock mount on both sides of the slot. As the lock lever is tightened, the wedge plate mating to the sloped track forces the template bar to a known center on both sides.

When you mount the template, lower the template bar all the way down with no wood in the jig and lock both levers. That will center the template bar. Now mount the template by pushing it forward under the thumb screws so the adjustment wheels touch the front edge of the jig. Hold it there while you tighten the thumb screws to secure the template to the template bar.

From that point forward, any time you lock both lock levers, the template will be held in that exact registration. The under side of the adjustment wheels have a cam so as you rotate the adjustment wheel it will move the template in or out so you can create as tight a fit as you wish. Once set, the template will always return to the registration you set so your dovetails will always fit the same way SO LONG AS YOU SET THE SPECIFIED BIT DEPTH THE SAME EVERY TIME. If you alter the bit depth from one use to the next you will affect the fit of the dovetails.

If your work processes match the precision designed into the jig you will make perfect drawers time after time. Hope this helps and I would suggest taking down the video so others not familiar with the VS600 do not get a false impression of a really well made unit.

Jerry

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackRafter (Post 5697)
Chris,

Actually, I like the jig a lot and I have been able to get good joints. I find it fast and easy to use except for those issues, and from my vantage point they are issues. One would think that for an entry price of about $800.00 you'd get better precision and not have things bump and grind each other, no?:D

As for the mounting bar, how can it be self aligning if it has play in it? The right side of the jig is self aligning because after you adjust the in & out with the wheel the position is maintained. The same can't be said for the left side. As the bar travels up it's moving and thus you can't be assured of proper alignment on that side.:smad:


JackRafter 08-26-2008 01:14 AM

Re: Festool VS 600
 
Jerry,

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I have a health respect for the work you do as a woodworker and helping to promote Festool, but please don’t ask me to take down my video. Consider that 99.9999% of the people that get one will pay for it, they should know what to expect.

You said: What you show in your video is normal action when the lock levers are unlocked as they were when you did the video. There is designed-in play between the lock lever bolt and the slot cast into the lock mount. That allows the template bar to move easily up and down without binding to accommodate different thicknesses of workpieces.”

That statement begs the question, then why is there no play in the other side? A possible answer could be that the other side should have play, but then that would mean that that side is faulty. Either way somethings just isn’t right.
Now my point here is not to bash Festool, on the contrary, it’s to help Festool live up to their reputation. :popcorn:

ChrisM 08-26-2008 01:48 AM

Re: Festool VS 600
 
Joseph,

I told you and Jerry told you how it works as for alignment. You yourself have stated that it works good and you get good joints. What is your issue. Do you or do you not have an impact on your dovetail joints because when the handle is not engaged you can wiggle the thing back and forth. What does it matter if you can on one side and not the other. Who cares if there's more movement than you are getting in the unlocked position, when it goes to the same center point when locked? I think Jerry's right about asking you to take the video's down. If something isn't working for you then let's talk about that and see what can be done. If it is working right then it's hard to see where you are coming from on this.




Quote:

Originally Posted by JackRafter (Post 5792)
Jerry,

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I have a health respect for the work you do as a woodworker and helping to promote Festool, but please donít ask me to take down my video. Consider that 99.9999% of the people that get one will pay for it, they should know what to expect.

You said: ďWhat you show in your video is normal action when the lock levers are unlocked as they were when you did the video. There is designed-in play between the lock lever bolt and the slot cast into the lock mount. That allows the template bar to move easily up and down without binding to accommodate different thicknesses of workpieces

That statement begs the question, then why is there no play in the other side? A possible answer could be that the other side should have play, but then that would mean that that side is faulty. Either way somethings just isnít right.
Now my point here is not to bash Festool, on the contrary, itís to help Festool live up to their reputation. :popcorn:


Mirko 08-26-2008 02:19 AM

Re: Festool VS 600
 
At first screening I was like: "hmmm... glad I bought a Leigh Jig!"

Then after reading the posts, I re viewed the video, and must say that its missleading.
Joe, It looks like It could be reshot to include this vital information.

BTW if you want to video tape something that do'snt work well, start with the Kapex!;):D

Mirko

JackRafter 08-26-2008 02:36 AM

Re: Festool VS 600
 
Chris,

It’s important in my opinion that anyone investing in anything have a reasonable expectation of just what it is their getting. The Festool VS 600 is not a cheap thing money wise, so it shouldn’t appear cheap or cheaply manufactured. It should at the very least perform to the highest standards.

On first glance the jig looks good, but on closer inspection the play issue is discovered and I for one would like to know if it should, or should not have play. If it should then one side of my expensive jig is not manufactured correctly because it doesn’t have any play. If it shouldn’t have play then the side that does isn’t manufactured correctly, regardless of how well the jig works.

If there is some designed play in the jig how is the purchaser to know what is the acceptable amount of play as there is no mention of play anywhere in the manual or Jerry’s fine work on the jig.
And what of the inlet on the 1010 hitting the knob, doesn’t that seem a little cheaply thought out? Your solution was to just twist the router a bit, but that’s in direct contrast to what the manual says about not twisting the router. . . Poking

So my point is that if you’ve got 10 grand or so invested in Festool you get to talk and post videos about the things you just don’t see as right.:cool_shades:

JackRafter 08-26-2008 02:38 AM

Re: Festool VS 600
 
Mirko,

I can't because I just could not bring myself to buy one.:cool:

JerryWork 08-26-2008 05:34 AM

Re: Festool VS 600
 
Hi Jack,

A last couple of comments. First, I don't "promote" Festool and I am not paid to sell Festool products. I design and build fine furniture for a living. I do get paid to write "Getting the most from..." type manuals for Festool and other suppliers and tool companies which I believe supply best of breed products, but I do that and actively participate in these chat groups as part of my way of putting back into the system more than I take out.

Now back to the VS600. Take a look at the nylock nuts on the ends of the template bar shaft. Note that there is a thrust washer inboard of that nut. As the lock lever is moved towards the lock position a cam engages on that washer which forces the wedge plate to mate with the angle track on either side of the grove in the lock mount centering and securing the template bar and hence the template into the same registration each and every time. The nylock nuts are there so you can adjust the force required to set the lock lever to make up for any wear that might occur over time.

When the lock levers are unlocked you can grab the lock handle and pull it away from the jig on both sides which will free up the wedge plate on both ends of the template bar assembly. Look closely and you will see that just before the threaded portion of the template plate shaft there is a machined round boss that is what rides up and down the slot. With both lock levers unlocked and pulled away from the jig you should feel the same amount of play on the left and the right sides as they are designed and manufactured identically.

If you feel more play on one side than the other on your jig, while it makes no difference at all to the performance of the jig when the lock levers are in the lock position, just for giggles look to see what is causing the difference in the amount of play. On my unit the play is the same once the wedge plates are pulled the same distance away from engagement with the machined ramps on which they center the template plate assembly. It could be that on your unit one of the nylock nuts is adjusted tighter than the other which prevents the wedge plate from pulling as fully away from the machined ramps when the lock lever is released on one side as it does on the other.

All this said, the readers should know that play in the assembly when the lock levers are in the unlocked position has nothing what so ever to do with the proper functioning of the jig. The template is properly registered to be in the same location time after time only when both lock levers are moved to the locked position. That is how it is designed and how it works.

Decades ago when I first purchased one of my 356 Porsches, I noticed that one door was adjusted a bit tighter than the other requiring a bit more tug on the door handle to open. It didn't effect in any way the proper functioning of the doors, nor did it render the car improperly designed or manufactured in my mind. I simply readjusted the door latches to be the same and enjoyed that car for more than 200,000 very pleasurable miles.

Hope we can put this play on one side more than the other with the lock levers released stuff to bed and focus instead on how well the VW600 works making really great drawers quickly and accurately day in and day out. I just this afternoon cranked out multiples of five different sized drawers that are part of an office armoire I am building this week for a good customer. All of the drawers assembled square, tight and flat. Can't ask for more than that.

Jerry


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